Prefer to watch a movie in the theater without the chatter of restless kids? How about being able to walk down the grocery aisle without a herd of rugrats cutting you off? Rather enjoy a nice meal at a nice restaurant without the bellowing of an infant? What about flying cross-country without an antsy five-year-old kicking the back of your seat?
This week, Piper Weiss wrote an interesting story on the no-kids movement. In her piece, she listed an airline, restaurant, grocery store, and travel site that offer kid-free experiences. Some banning kids altogether, others offering customers kid-free hours where they can shop amongst adults. Adweek writer Robert Klara says "brat bans" could change the landscape when it comes to leisure marketing. It's no surprise that childless couples usually have more disposable income than families, and businesses are discovering a way to get that dough.If my local movie theater offered an adults-only showing of Shrek 4 (c'mon, you know there's gonna be one!), there's no doubt in my mind that I'd choose that over the one open to kids. If my supermarket offered kid-free shopping hours, I probably wouldn't care. However, if Walmart announced a child-free shopping option, I'd be all over that. The way parents let their children scream at the top of their lungs in that place blows my mind. Granted, the parents are to blame just as much as the kids. But, that doesn't make the bellowing any more bearable.
These days, there are lots of niche businesses. Plenty that cater to animal lovers, singles, Christians, gays and lesbians, or other such groups. So, it makes sense that childless couples and individuals could be a profit center, as well. But, are parents going to tolerate being banned? Will they leave their kids in the car while they shop or eat? I think that's a double no.
Back in the 70s, adult-only apartment complexes were all the rage. Mix and mingle at the pool. Get hot and heavy in the jacuzzi. Adult fun. However, after lawsuits from disgruntled families started to hit the courts, those kind of apartment houses went the way of the disco ball. People don't like to be restricted from places. However, would a family have a more enjoyable experience if the childless people who didn't delight in the antics of wee ones had all shopped earlier during the kid-free hours? No reprimands or dirty looks from anyone if their kid did something disruptive?
What do YOU think? Would you enjoy having a child-free option for entertainment, dining, or travel? As a parent, would you be happy to get those people out of your hair or would you feel discriminated against? Is a "brat ban" the next big thing?
I think it is perfectly fine. I'm not anti-kid but I am anti-brat. Especially when it comes to movies. I paid $20 bucks to watch a movie not listen to a brat scream. If people still had manners and removed themselves and their child while they dealt with the situation, I wouldn't care but they don't care about inconveniencing me. I would gladly partake in adult only shopping/dining time. I don't have an option whether or not I have to shop/dine around children so I think it is only fair to allow me that option. Great discussion topic!
ReplyDeleteAmber, you can have mine for a while so I can enjoy those luxuries.
ReplyDeleteThanks for chiming in, Junebug! You're so right about parents removing noisy kids from theaters. This USED to happen all the time. It's what moms and dads did. Today, I never see anyone do that. The overall deterioration of manners in society is an epidemic.
ReplyDeleteI actually read a related piece today from Susie Kline that had parenting tips (http://bit.ly/nfP7QQ). If every parent followed Susie's advice, I think the world would be a better place ;-)
Thanks for the comment and the tweet, Junebug!
Hmmm. Thanks for the offer, Todd. I think I'll stick to my dogs, though. You don't have to send them to college ;-)
ReplyDeleteyou can have my dogs too
ReplyDeleteYou can joke about giving away your kids, but not your dogs. Now, go give your kids and your dogs a kiss and a treat. Go on. I'm waiting...
ReplyDeleteI'm not giving them AWAY- just for you to hold while I enjoy the lap of non-brat world
ReplyDeleteI am enjoying this interaction between Amber an you (Todd). I think parents should not feel bad about it. It only means they are considerate of others. I won't like a crying kid to disturb my movie on a regular basis. If it is a custom in a movie center, it will be better that they solve the problem or I choose elsewhere to see my movie. / I don't have Kids yet btw!
ReplyDeleteAs a parent, I am well aware and considerate of my kids (who are ANGELS in comparison, and suitably quiet) versus what I see in public.
ReplyDeleteMy josh man was soo well behaved I could take him into a class I was giving a final exam to and not worry about him bothering them.
so Amber, wanna sit?
Jesse, is this a problem in Nigeria?
ReplyDeleteKudos to you for doing such a great job with Josh that he could be trusted to be quiet during the exam. That's good parenting!
ReplyDeleteSure, I'll sit for them. Plop them on a plane and we're good to go!
Brilliant post as always Amber. I certainly would go for a "brat ban". Nothing makes me more jittery than waiting to board a plane, and seeing a screaming child (with oblivious parents) in the same queue!!I am not anti-children, but I am anti-brats. In fact we had an "anti-children" clause on our wedding invitations. My reception was on a yacht, and we didn't want to be responsible for kids hurling themselves overboard whilst parents were oblivious to what was happening. I got married 16 years ago, and we still have family and friends who refuse to talk to us because of that decision!
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment, Vanessa! I'll take that one step further and say I'm anti-bad parent.
ReplyDeleteMy hair stylist just had a wedding and also made it kid-free. Her family all said, "That's just for others, right? We can still bring OUR kids, can't we?". Her answer was no and she also incurred the wrath of many of her guests.
Frankly, I don't know what's wrong with that at all. It's YOUR DAY as a bride. Shouldn't everything be exactly how you want it? Why sacrifice your happiness for the happiness of others on the most special day of your life????
Kudos to you for sticking to your guns, Vanessa.
I didn't get married in Spain. But if I did, and I wanted a kid free wedding, I would have been burnt at the stake by now ;-) In the Med, children are the center of the Universe (brat or not!)
ReplyDeleteOne of the reasons my Hubby and I rarely go out to restaurants or to the movies anymore is because of all the brats. Now, that being said, I am the mother of a 7-year-old boy. He is not allowed to act like a brat in public. Period. (He saves the drama to torment me at home.) When I actually get a night out sans child I don't want to have a toddler kicking my chair at a 9 p.m. rated-R movie. I don't want to listen to a family with 5 kids fighting and crying at the next table while I try to enjoy a nice quiet dinner.
ReplyDeleteThe kids would not act like brats if their parents didn't let them, but that's a whole other enchilada...
I'm ALL for a brat-free zone.
My French Bulldog is much more well behaved than most kids I come across at shops, the movies, restaurants, and on planes. I would love to have kid-free hours, as well as kids-welcome hours. Our local movie theater does a once-a-week "mommy and me" show where the lights are kept on and the sound is turned down a bit. I will never understand why someone would think a 2-year-old will be able to stay quiet during an 8pm dinner at a nice restaurant.
ReplyDeleteOf course, when I went to see Harry Potter last week, I had to ask an adult twice to stop texting... Maybe we don't need a "brat ban" but a "dumb-ass ban!"
We live in an apartment where the community bans those under 19. Before moving from the UK to Canada I never realized you can do this, you couldn't get away with it in London for sure. We didn't move here looking for a child free environment but after our experience in London its certainly a calm, peaceful and professional environment to be in, as I work from home often. I have to say though in London it wasn't the children that were the problem, it was the parents. I think the worst thing we saw was our next door neighbour hold their children through 1st floor windows to steal items from other people's apartments, aside from the screaming, running a prostitution ring, drug dealing, and so on (and we lived in a posh area!!). The children behaved as you would expect with such parents, like mini criminals in training. My previous experience in shops and cinema's have been good with children, no real big problems, in fact its been the adults who have caused disruption. In the UK there is a 9pm watershed on TV for adult only viewing, I think this could work for shops and services too but at an earlier time.
ReplyDeleteHey Vinobaby! Love your comment. As the parent of a well-behaved boy, you show how this issue isn't just about childless people.
ReplyDeleteAs for the lazy parents who don't teach their kids how to behave in public, that's a huge part of the problem. And, as you say, a whole other enchilada.
Thanks for adding your take to the conversation!
Hi Marianne! Thanks for adding to the dialogue. I think those Mommy and Me showings are a great idea. And are single people going to say they feel discriminated against because of that? I really don't think so. It's a win-win for everyone.
ReplyDeleteAs for the 2-year-old kid at the 8pm dinner, you're right. You can't blame the child. He's probably tired and cranky.
I think you might have something with the dummy zone. Perhaps we can put together an exploratory committee on that ;-)
What a dreadful story! Sounds terrible. No doubt you're happier where you are now.
ReplyDeleteAnd, yes, you are so right. Parents. Parents who refuse to discipline their children, be actively involved, and teach their kids how to behave in public are the problem. On occasion I've said something to an unruly child who was negatively impacting my experience and had the parent yell at me. Pretty shocking, actually.
You have to get a license to drive a car, but anyone can have a baby with no training or education. What is up with that????
I am a father and I understand that there are times where it is nice not to have kids around. But there is a difference between parents who are oblivious and parents who are trying to do the best they can to teach the children how to behave.
ReplyDeleteIt is not always possible to get a babysitter so sometimes the kids come along with us. I won't take them to movies that aren't for kids or to places that are clearly off limits.All that being said, they aren't as bad as the man/woman who think that we all need to hear their cellphone conversation anywhere and everywhere. They don't cut you off on the parking lot and curse at you or confront you for cutting them off.
They don't fight with you on an airplane for overhead compartment space or for the arm rest.
Really, it is not hard to come up with a list of things that we as adults do that are just as irritating if not worse.
Hey Jack. I think we can all agree that bad parents are the bigger issue here. No doubt about it.
ReplyDeleteI'm with you about the random encounters you mention above. They're irritating. But those are mostly momentary occurrences. I think the issue is more about longer experiences: a dinner, a movie, a shopping errand. Prolonged outings that can be enhanced or diminished based on ambiance.
Sounds like you're a responsible dad who tries to do the right thing. That's great! It's good to know there are parents out there like you ;-)
Amber, we are really not that far apart here but I would still argue that some of the most irritating examples I provided are not momentary.
ReplyDeleteThe guy who sat in front of me at Harry Potter texted and talked the entire time. I stood in line at Costco for 15 minutes and was forced to listen to the woman in front of me talk about how she wants to decorate her kitchen. It was noise pollution.
I suppose that we'll see if this movement has legs or not.
Rude people are breeding much too quickly. No argument there. The deterioration of basic manners disturbs me greatly. Makes life less enjoyable for all of us.
ReplyDeleteHaving raised a bunch of kids, and remembering the days when nobody wanted to rent to families with kids, I'm torn. Now I much prefer childless activities unless I'm at a family-type event specifically. Maybe the 'childless' movement is a combination of marketing, entitlement, and a backlash against the way folks let their kids act in public these days? Before you'd see a kid have a meltdown every so often - they are kids - but the parents were usually trying their best. Plus it seems like in the past parents didn't take their kids to more adult places and now many parents assume their kids belong everywhere.You can do many things without kids if you go at night. But there are times you'd like to go to a coffee house and be able to think in peace, or nice restaurant and relax at whatever time. People should be able to do that.
ReplyDeleteThanks for adding your perspective to the discussion, Rebecca!
ReplyDeleteWhen I was young, my mom had a hard time finding an apartment with a kid and dogs. So much so we had to move out of state. Therefore, I know what you're talking about.
As for "then" and "now", I think you're spot on. I'm not sure why etiquette has gone out of style and why so many parents just indulge their kids to the point of bratdom. I guess it's easier, perhaps?
Every time I hear a child scream in a public place, I listen for a parent to say something, to get involved, to be a mom or a dad. Almost always, I hear nothing. Are people just too lazy to be disciplinarians or is it more fun being the "cool" mom or dad? Honestly, I don't know. But, there IS a problem.
Thinking in peace? Relaxing? Sounds delicious to me! Thanks for chiming in, Rebecca!
How about we learn to be tolerant of others? How about we try interacting with those 'screaming' kids? Often a friendly "oh my goodness, you don't sound too happy" can take a toddlers mind off their problem. How about we put ourselves in the shoes of the parents? Maybe their child is just poorly behaved but maybe the child also has some sort of behavioral issue (aspergers, autism); maybe the parent is really struggling to manage family & work but financially just doesn't have any choice. How about we remember that as a society we NEED children (who's going to look after us when we're old & dribbling - especially if we don't have children of our own?). Yes there are a number of poorly brought up children out there who behave horrendously but there are also lots of parents who are really struggling & really appreciate a smile. So how about instead of segregating & thinking about me, we think more like a community anf think about us? Just a few thoughts from a mum with 2 well behaved children who empathises with those who weren't lucky enough to have the same background, opportunites & support :)
ReplyDeleteJudy, that's a lovely idea. Unfortunately, I don't think it's always practical.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm at a park and a kid is crying, I'm certainly going to make sure she's ok. If he's by himself in a store, I will absolutely make sure he isn't lost. But if a kid is hollering in a theater or the drug store and his/her parent isn't doing anything, I don't think the parenting falls to me.
You can the difference between parents who are overwhelmed and ones who are simply uninvolved. I think we're really talking about the latter here. As a human, I'm sympathetic to anyone who's having a rough time. But, when it comes to parents who lack awareness and consideration, I don't think it's my responsibility to pick up the slack.
If you can do that happily and willingly, I admire you.
Hi Amber, I may or may not have shared with you before that I am not a parent but have two Godchildren and more nieces and nephews than I can count. I love them all dearly and have done my fair share of babysitting and spoiling over the years. Soooo...that said I have a split opinion on this although I am leaning toward having the child-free entertainment option.
ReplyDeleteIn the past few years I've seen tons of businesses go above and beyond to be family or kid friendly. I say good for them, if their customers have children it's a very smart decision on their part to welcome them.
Conversely if a business is not either family or kid friendly I believe they have the right to not welcome children. It's their business and they know (or should know) what is the best decision for them.
Judy's comment below about tolerance and empathy is certainly worth considering as well. I'm certain that over the years I have seen a child misbehave in public and assumed the worst when in fact the child had a behavioral issue.
On the other hand as you pointed out it is pretty obvious when a parent is not involved or concerned. When I perceive that to be the case, my empathy level decreases.
P.S. As we discussed on Twitter, I would happily support a nonprofit that brought an etiquette or good citizenship program into schools. One of my favorite books on my bookshelf is The Good Citizen's Handbook: A Guide to Proper Behavior. It's a wonderful book that I think every parent and every classroom should have. Here's the link: http://t.co/Vmn4qLV
ReplyDeleteHey Katie, thanks for stopping by!
ReplyDeleteYou make great points. Lots of businesses have gone out of their way to accommodate families, so you think they'd be able to do the same when it comes to the childless.
And, honestly, I don't think this issue is only about those who don't have kids. I know parents who relish a night out without the kids. I'm sure if they wanted to hear a child scream, they'd bring along their own. So, they probably don't want to listen to other people's kids do it, either.
As for the empathy level, I'm with you. Overwhelmed mom? I get it. Lazy mom? Hit the road.
Good to know in case my travels ever take me there!
ReplyDeletewhew...this is a good one...I dont have kids but I have a dog. I have leaving her to go anymore so I can only imagine what a parent goes through. BUT with that said, I have been on a plane, movie theater, church with crying baby and it ruins it for everyone else...yikes...dont know what right thing to say or do is.
ReplyDeleteHi Jessica! I think the quick answer is that this becomes a non-issue when ALL parents start making their children behave in public. The unfortunately reality is that lazy parents give a bad rap to good parents. But, who wants a screaming child to ruin their dinner or movie? Even folks with children don't enjoy that.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like an opportunity for businesses to tap into a new customer base, though. And in this economy, any growth is good in my opinion.
Thanks for the comment!
First time here thanks to Jessica! I think I have a bit of a unique persepctive because from the start of my career at age 22 to 39, I was the epitome of the "annoyed by screaming kids" traveler, movie theater go-er, grocery shopping person. Then I had a baby, with colic, who grew into a strong willed toddler/young child. My, my, how your perspective changes!
ReplyDeleteI've faced blown out diapers on planes -try changing a squirming infant in one of those bathrooms! - and a 3 yr old having a fit in the toy aisle at Target b/c you won't buy her a Dora doll. Woot! Lots of fun there.
I've also sat in a crappy Kroger bathroom trying to nurse my colicky child b/c she's screaming and I don't know what else to do and I desperately need groceries. I've stood calmly and waited it out while my daughter laid on that floor in Target having a temper tantrum because a) trying to shut her up would've made it worse and b) part of good parenting, IMHO, is not giving in and teaching your child that "girlie, you are not going to get your way and get that Dora doll and you better realize right now that I'm the boss here and when I say 'No,' I mean 'No'." Did I get dirty looks? Sure. Did I care? Nope. Why? Because I refuse to raise a spoiled, bratty child. Did I also get comments like "Oh yeah. I remember that stage. Good for you for not giving in." Yep.
Having been on both sides of it, I don't think it is black and white. I think a lot of how you view it depends on your stage in life with or without kids. Trust me, I know it's hard to be sympathetic when you don't have kids. Boy, how I know. That was me. Now, at 46 with a six year old, I have a different perspective. I can say that parents can instantly tell when another parent is being lazy or is trying to teach a lesson about behaving in a public place.
For what it's worth... :-)
Katherine
I don't think this is a curmudgeonly response, but others may think so. Judy below is missing the point (and being kind of preachy). Most of us who don't have and don't want children have a ton of respect for parents and what they go through. Most of my friends are parents! :-) Not all of us childless folk are so heartless that we can't acknowledge that extenuating circumstances might make for a noisy child (including rotten parenting). I respect good parents who can't leave the child at home for whatever reason. I feel for the mom who is stuck on a plane with a child in distress. It bothers me to hear the crying during the entire flight, but I deal with it by using headphones or earplugs. But, come on - I'm quite accommodating and respectful when it comes to bringing my dogs with me. I don't assume that everyone loves dogs. Granted, it's not entirely on par with having children, but, I'm capable of sensitivity - sheesh. That said, I'd love to be able to shop without children running up and down the aisles. I'd enjoy a dinner out without children present. Movies aren't an issue - and most parents do remove their children if they get noisy during a film.
ReplyDeletePeople want to interpret my desire to avoid being around children all the time as a character flaw - well, go ahead. I'm not so sure about people who don't like dogs! :-) Great post, Amber!
Interesting thought; I'm pretty tolerant so 'active' kids don't really bother me. However, if you are out and spending good money and want to have an enjoyable, relaxed time I could see where 'designated' times might work. In my world I think that's called the 'early bird' special...................doh.............
ReplyDeleteI have done the 4 hr plane ride with a baby crying the entire way. Fortunately, I had my iPod and something to read. When we landed, the lady next to me remarked how 'lucky' I was to have had the iPod. Even so, it was pretty annoying. I just knew there was really nothing to be done and it certainly wasn't the baby's fault, so I just figure out a way to deal with it.
I guess I would be in favor of more establishments having 'kid-free' times.
I love the idea of Mommy and me movie time. Love it. But guess when those are showing? 1:00 on a weekday afternoon! Same with the fabulous story times at the library. 10 a.m. on a weekday morning. I would love to have taken my daughter to those kinds of events but I work full-time. Those are for the "stay at home Mommy/Daddy" type families. I don't particularly resent it b/c my life is what it is but I sure wish I could have taken advantage of those outings. If they had been at 5:00 or 6:00, that would work just fine for me but they aren't at that time.
ReplyDeleteHey Jean! I don't think that's curmudgeonly (does that make me a curmudgeon, too?). :-)
ReplyDeleteI think your comment perfectly illustrates why businesses are starting to tap into child-free encounters. There is a market for it. And, as a dog parent myself, I hear you! My dogs are better behaved than most children I see, yet are banned from places even when in a travel carrier, stroller, pouch or if I carry them.
I think this all boils down to respect. People used to not bring their kids to fancy restaurants, understanding that it was an adult place. Parents always used to remove their screaming kids from the theater, now many don't because they don't want to miss the movie (this may not be a problem where you are, but it is here). It goes back to the deterioration of manners in our society.
Granted, there are lots of great parents out there. And, frankly, when I see a good parent that is making their child behave in public, I ALWAYS thank them. ALWAYS. I want them to know I notice and appreciate it.
Thanks for chiming in, Jean. And, I'm with you on people who don't like dogs! ^..^
Hi Katherine! Any friend of Jessica's is a friend of mine! Welcome!
ReplyDeleteI think your comment goes to the power of empathy over sympathy. I completely get what you're saying. We're also all more caring towards issues we care about. A mom might be willing to help another mom in distress. A dog guardian might be more willing to ignore a barking dog. Our actions are shaped by our priorities.
Good luck with the parenthood thing! And tell Santa about that Dora doll. I hear he's started accepting lists early this year. :-)
You bring up a good issue, Bill. Money.
ReplyDeleteAs you say, if you're "spending good money", I think people expect to enjoy themselves. Anything that deters them from that, including a child, is not appreciated.
As for being trapped in a plane with a unhappy baby, I think we've all been there. Granted, we all understand it's not the baby's fault (or even the mom's), it's no less excruciating. There is no doubt in my mind I'd prefer a kid-free flight just to avoid the possibility of being trapped in the sky with a cranky child. So, is Malaysia Airlines smart to offer the option? I think it is.
Thanks for adding your thoughts to the discussion, Bill!
Good point, Katherine. One of the many challenges of being a working mom. My mom was one, too.
ReplyDeleteWait, so Amber is offering to take our kids?! Awesome! Maria will be on the next flight from Indy to LA. Woot! :-)
ReplyDeleteAuntie Amber's Summer Retreat. Blogger endorsed. Puppy approved. :-)
ReplyDeleteI can also send my TWO 80 pound black labs, if you're game. Lucky and Zoe are quite lovely. (I have a full house here)
ReplyDeleteMy short answer is I would pay extra money to do many things that were child-free, including ride on an airplane. I'm not unsympathetic, I just enjoy peace and would pay extra for it. I would also, however, pay extra to eat at a restaurant which banned cell phones. It's not only children who can disturb our peace.
ReplyDeleteNice post, Amber, with lots of good discussion.
Hey Jeanie! I'm sure you're not alone. I bet LOTS of people would pay extra for cell phone-free environments. Why do people still think they have to talk extra loud while using a phone???? Criminy!
ReplyDeleteThanks for adding to the discussion, Jeanie ;-)
Always a pleasure to stop by Amber.
ReplyDeleteI agree this is not just about people who don't have kids and the people who do wanting and even needing downtime. How do you think I have ended up babysitting over the years? ;) Parents absolutely need a break.
We are on the same page with the empathy as well, overwhelmed parents get the benefit of the doubt. The lazy parents are who I lose patience with.
I once tweeted about kid-free flights and was accused of lacking compassion... I'm pretty sure even parents don't want to hear their own child screaming whether on a plane, in a movie theater or in a restaurant. It's not like I'm advocating the obliteration of all children! Even parents relish their child-free evenings.
ReplyDeleteThat being said I'd gladly pay extra money to be free of annoyances be it ill-behaved children or adults.
See, now that's a shame. It really bothers me when people can't state the truth without being accused of wrong doing. C'mon. Screaming kids ARE annoying. You don't have to be a child hater to think that. Some of the notes kids can hit are high enough to shatter glass.
ReplyDeleteI'd pay extra, too. But isn't it a pity that any of us even have to think about paying extra for courtesy? Have good manners really gone so far by the wayside that people can't behave in public? It's a very sad state of affairs, in my opinion.
Instead of people having to pay extra not to be annoyed, shouldn't the annoyers be fine for being discourteous to those around them????
Thanks for weighing in, Sam!
I like that idea! Fining adults for being discourteous! Children I can understand and accommodate but adults? NO WAY.
ReplyDeleteNow, to be elected to political office to put my diabolical plan into action!
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